The Cheapest Mid and Rear Engined Cars

"472CID" (472CID) 04/08/2015 at 12:56 • Filed to: USELESSLISTS

6

80

There's no such thing as a mundane mid-engined car. Regardless of how objectively good or bad a car is it gets substantially more interesting when you put the engine behind the driver. Part of what makes them specially is their rarity. And despite being an uncommon layout there have been a few easily attainable models over the years. Here's all of the "affordable" (and by affordable I mean they're less than the cheapest new mid engined car) mid-engine and some (but not all) rear engined cars.

To figure out the value ranges here I looked at NADA guide, and Kelly Blue Book. It too the low end values and averaged them with the upper end values. I also took a look at the average price on Autotrader. Autotrader gives you a better "real world" look at prices, but they are a bit skewed (ex. Fiero kit cars that cost over $20k). also you can assume that dealer are going to ask for more than private sellers. Combine that with looking at Auto Trader Classic and Ebay motors and just gave an estimate that feels right.

Pontiac Fiero $3,000

Toyota MR2 $4,000

Toyota MR2 (second gen) $4,000/$6,000 for the turbo

Fiat X1/9 $5,000 rough average estimate

Toyota MR2 Spyder $6,500

VW Beetle $8,000 for a decent non-project

Chevrolet Corviar $8,000 for a good Monza or Corsa

Porsche Boxster (986) $8,000 low end acceptable example

Lancia Beta Scorpion $8,500 maybe, if you ever saw one for sale

Porsche 914 $10,000 it's hard to tell prices are all over the place, but I think this is an ok average for 4 cylinder cars. 914/6s easily go for more than $50,000.

VW Karmann Ghia $10,000

Lotus Europa honestly no idea, if you ever did see one for sale it'd probably be a bit over $10k

Lotus Eprit $16,000 for a third gen

Porsche Boxster (867) something like $20,000 for a base maybe $30,000ish for a loaded S

Porsche 911 (996) $20,000 for a Carrera obviously more for Ss, 4s, turbos, etc.

Maserati Merak somewhere between $20,000-30,000

Ferrari Mondial $32,000

Delorean DMC-12 $32,000

Lotus Elise $35,000

Lotus Esprit $35,000

Acura NSX $40,000

Ferrari 308 roughly $50,000 or about the same price as a new Cayman.

I didn't include every rear engine car because I didn't want to dig up every old VW, Renault, and Fiat econobox. I've also included price when new adjusted for inflation.

Note the cars that aren't available in the United States, Lotus Elise (1st gen), MG F, Renault Clio V6, Honda Beat, Mazda AZ1, Matras, Renault Alpines, Venturis, not sure about Renault 5 turbos or Peugeot 205 T16s.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > 472CID 04/08/2015 at 12:57

0

.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > 472CID 04/08/2015 at 12:57

1

Wish kinja let us delete.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > 472CID 04/08/2015 at 12:58

0

Rear, still.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 04/08/2015 at 12:58

0

.

472CID > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 04/08/2015 at 13:01

0

We've all been there.

daender > 472CID 04/08/2015 at 13:05

0

I know a guy in Columbia who has one he's somewhat-trying to sell. It's a yellow pre-'71 with the Renault engine but it needs quite a bit of bodywork and the interior needs to be put back together. Don't know how much but it might be under 10k$.

StoneCold > 472CID 04/08/2015 at 13:08

4

I was at first going to say "Where's the Pantera?", but then I took a quick glance and they've suddenly jumped twenty grand when I wasn't looking.

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/ca…

^Cheapest one I've found near me.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > 472CID 04/08/2015 at 13:10

3

It's kinda crazy how in the last 5 or 6 years the NSX especially early models have appreciated by about 10-15,000 dollars. Like if you bought a 1992 NSX in 2010 for 28,000, left it unmodified and put 5 or 10 thousand miles on it you could potentially sell it for 10,000 dollars more today.

StoneCold > StoneCold 04/08/2015 at 13:13

1

Aha, I'm not going crazy:

https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools…

Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! > 472CID 04/08/2015 at 13:15

15

Nobody likes me :(

Brian, The Life of > 472CID 04/08/2015 at 13:22

1

What a world we live in when the horrible, horrible Mondial is going for north of $30k.

/smh

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > 472CID 04/08/2015 at 13:24

0

I misread it initially as mid engined only. :/

PS9 > 472CID 04/08/2015 at 13:30

0

Hmm...that's a good point about the Cayman. I'm honestly not sure I'd pick the 308 over it, given that it's going to be better in every respect, and porsche perfomance parts - while still far and away from cheap - will still cost less than those for a classic Ferrari.

472CID > Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! 04/08/2015 at 13:30

1

And I can't come up with a good argument against it.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > 472CID 04/08/2015 at 13:42

3

I thought all of these rusted back into their base elements long, long ago.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > 472CID 04/08/2015 at 13:46

0

For some reason the radio in this one only plays the James Bond theme song.

JR1 > Brian, The Life of 04/08/2015 at 14:02

1

How horrible is it though really? I can't imagine Ferrari ever made a bad car.

JR1 > 472CID 04/08/2015 at 14:03

3

Perfect compromise of price, speed, power, and desirability. So. Much. Want

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > 472CID 04/08/2015 at 14:07

1

Someone has a very clean '87 for sale in my neighborhood.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > 472CID 04/08/2015 at 14:09

0

http://oppositeblog.kinja.com/

Saoul-Virage > 472CID 04/08/2015 at 14:14

0

What about the R8 ?

I mean this one :

Manuél Ferrari > Brian, The Life of 04/08/2015 at 14:15

0

;(

Manuél Ferrari > JR1 04/08/2015 at 14:16

0

They're not all horrible. The Mondial 3.2 is a good car.

Manuél Ferrari > PS9 04/08/2015 at 14:16

0

You're wrong.

The Cayman will never be worth anything.

The 308's value is going up by the minute.

PS9 > Manuél Ferrari 04/08/2015 at 14:28

0

As an investment, sure. But as something you buy to drive and enjoy? Nah, nothing you do to this 70s era Ferrari will make it as good as a Cayman.

JR1 > Manuél Ferrari 04/08/2015 at 14:29

0

Have you driven one?

Manuél Ferrari > PS9 04/08/2015 at 14:33

1

Meh

Modernness and speed is overrated

The more I drive the 997 the more I wish I had bought an air cooled 911 instead

Not only because the value of my car has tanked over the past 4 years while the value of all the air cooled 911s has sky rocked

But also because speed limits are so fucking low that modern cars aren't that fun

At least you can feel like you're getting 7/10ths the performance out of a 70s or 80s era Ferrari or Porsche on public roads without a 100% chance of jail time

Also the older cars sound way better

BaconSandwich is tasty. > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/08/2015 at 14:33

0

What's the price like?

472CID > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/08/2015 at 14:34

2

Call Mr Regular

Manuél Ferrari > JR1 04/08/2015 at 14:35

1

No but I want to. I have researched it. It is related to the 328. So it's more reliable and faster than the 308-based Mondials that came before it and a lot cheaper to maintain than the Mondial that came after it. The 348-based Mondial is a more complex car.

JR1 > Manuél Ferrari 04/08/2015 at 14:38

1

I think I remember reading somewhere once it was related to the 328.

Aren't you trying to sell your old M3? And aren't the Mondial going for about the same price? Sell the M3 and become Manuél Ferrari^2

Manuél Ferrari > PS9 04/08/2015 at 14:39

1

And also what's wrong about caring about how much a car will depreciate?

99% of everyone on this site says that we should all always buy based on what we want

I'm starting to think that's bullshit

We all have a limited amount of money we will ever make in our lives. No matter what our careers are we have restraints as we only have so many peak earning years.

Since cars are nothing but a hobby for anyone who isn't a race car driver, auto salesman, car dealership owner, etc. I think we should start thinking about how to enjoy our hobby at the lowest possible cost. Even if we can't make money off cars we can try to pick cars that will hold their value.

If someone is going to buy one car only as a DD then I totally agree with you - the Cayman is the way to go compared to an older tech Porsche or Ferrari. But if someone has a reliable DD and wants a weekend toy then near-classic can make more sense.

Manuél Ferrari > JR1 04/08/2015 at 14:45

0

yeah I keep thinking about selling the e46

dis is a great idea. gated shifter x 2 would be sweet

i keep thinking about all the options. sometimes i consider selling both the M3s for one or two Manuél cars. that way 100% Manuél is achieved

PS9 > Manuél Ferrari 04/08/2015 at 14:59

1

Speed limits are really low, but come on; The Cayman isn't exactly a 918. It has about the same power as an ecoboost mustang. Actually, with only about 500 lb difference between the two, it wouldn't be that much faster (in a straight line) either. Your capacity as a driver to get arrested and do jail time is a matter of choice and responsibility, not speed and horsepower. Given that, any car can 'put you in jail', not just Ferraris and Porsches. And if you want that remaining 20%, you can always wring the thing out on your favorite race track.

There's more to this than just 'moderness'. You cannot overrate 40 years of technological advancement, which is going to result in a clearly superior product in every quantifiable measure. It's not fair to hold that against the 308, as the same 40 years would result in a vehicle that sits far above the Cayman, but here we are. For my $50k, given that I don't really care about ROI, I'm taking the new Porsche with a warranty over the classic Ferrari.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > BaconSandwich is tasty. 04/08/2015 at 15:06

0

$4500, but not sure on miles or which engine (yet).

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > 472CID 04/08/2015 at 15:06

0

Is that his wheelhouse? AW11, right?

Axial > 472CID 04/08/2015 at 15:08

0

I will have to get an '88 Fiero GT at some point, before they are all turned into kit cars, crashed, or collectible.

PS9 > Manuél Ferrari 04/08/2015 at 15:28

1

Nothing wrong at all with caring about depreciation, if that's what you want to do. I don't want to do that though, because relative to a single persons life, money is worthless.

It's true that we will only ever make so much money. It's also true that you cannot take it with you when you die. No matter where you manage to take yourself in life, no matter if you become a corporate commander of industry, a head of state, a king, an emperor - even if you manage to attain world domination, it will not matter. You will end your life with the riches you had on day you started it with; $0.

I personally don't care about depreciation, because how much sense does it make to worry about all of the money you are losing in a moment when you will lose all of it no matter what? You can say that a new german sports car is a massive waste of money relative to depreciation. Many will say that. But I would say that there's a reason people still buy these things new, and it's not just the warranty; the feeling that you've made it, knowing that you're leaving your previous life of getting only second hand things behind, having a spirited drive through a twisty road, hitting that apex as the highest speed your skill level can handle at the track without catastrophe, being the envy of all your family and friends and stranger, even - happy experiences. What's the depreciation on those, and where can I buy them?

If I though buying something for $50k - or whatever the price really - would lead me to more happy experiences and improve my quality of life, I'd hand it over without a second thought. The value we attach to currency is borrowed only for the moment it exists as a medium of exchange. Beyond that, it's worthless. Relative to increasing the chances of living a happy life, it's less than worthless.

JR1 > Manuél Ferrari 04/08/2015 at 16:12

1

With an Oppo name like yours it almost demands all cars be manuél. I would expect nothing less.

For the kind of money you could sell both the M3's for you would have some pretty attractive options available. Anything from a pre war Lincoln Continental to a Boss 302 Mustang plus some change for a sensible DD like a used CTSV

Manuél Ferrari > JR1 04/08/2015 at 18:32

0

Haha yes, I have backed myself into a corner! I must go all manual to live up to my user name.

OMG of the ones you mentioned I would want CTS-V. I think the used CTS-Vs are a great by right now. All versions are going to be future classics. Including the wagon.

Manuél Ferrari > PS9 04/08/2015 at 19:10

0

True the base Cayman isn't that fast. I was thinking more about the Cayman S, but that's more expensive.

I think I'm just bitter about how much money I've wasted on cars so I'm wishing I only bought near classics and one modern econobox instead, haha

JR1 > Manuél Ferrari 04/08/2015 at 19:10

1

Seriously the CTS-V wagon has a baby Zr1 engine and the looks of a killer. Sell the M3s and buy the American tower of power!

Manuél Ferrari > PS9 04/08/2015 at 19:13

0

True dat that money is pretty meaningless in a single person's life. I started developing these depreciation reducing thoughts when I wasn't single and thought I was going to get married and have an instant stepchild and my own kids. But I'm back to Forever Alone (TM) so now I can go back to my YOLO car spending ways.

Also I think I would have a much different opinion on two of my modern German cars if they had Manuél inside instead of paddles. Paddles make a car pretty fucking boring after a while. It starts to feel more like an appliance than a sports car. As long as we all remember to Always go Manuél we will be fine.

Manuél Ferrari > JR1 04/08/2015 at 19:14

0

I also like the coupe! Saw one yesterday that was dark grey. Mmm, tasty.

JR1 > Manuél Ferrari 04/08/2015 at 19:33

0

I like the coupe too. Very controversial design but I have always enjoyed it.

The Cadillac color Black Diamond is a beautiful color to have on any car.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > 472CID 04/08/2015 at 19:36

1

You forgot one...

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > JR1 04/08/2015 at 19:40

0

It's an evolution of the Dino 206/246. And the very first 308, was branded as a 'Dino', not a Ferrari:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dino_%28a…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_3…

Manuél Ferrari > JR1 04/08/2015 at 19:46

1

Lord Vader your car has arrived

punkgoose17 > 472CID 04/09/2015 at 14:51

0

Renault Dauphine $4,000 for a driver if you can find one. I will get $4,000 and find another one for sale. (Rear Engine)

Ratchet when he's all hopped up on synthetic energon > 472CID 04/09/2015 at 14:55

0

The only one I can think of is that you couldn't get both the supercharger and a stickshift in the same van. It was supercharged OR had 3 pedals.

punkgoose17 > 472CID 04/09/2015 at 15:00

1

http://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/4933351062… Search Tempest (not autotempest) is the best way to find weird cars on Craigslist.

Kevin Barrett > 472CID 04/09/2015 at 15:01

0

Jason Schwartzman?

TheHondaBro > 472CID 04/09/2015 at 15:03

0

HNNNG!!

TheHondaBro > 472CID 04/09/2015 at 15:04

0

YES.

punkgoose17 > 472CID 04/09/2015 at 15:05

1

http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/cto/4965371965… for crazy Jalops out there.

punkgoose17 > 472CID 04/09/2015 at 15:09

1

http://norfolk.craigslist.org/cto/4931438298… this is the last one I'm posting. There are probably more out there. This one looks good. I wish I had an extra $6,500.

ThatDamnDrunk > 472CID 04/09/2015 at 15:11

0

I'm not from anywhere near to where these sell, but I wonder if these rear engined skodas are cheap?

Rick Cavaretti > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. 04/09/2015 at 15:32

1

nope. Plenty of Scorpions/Montecarlos in California. One comes up for sale every couple of months on Bringatrailer.com

Bmarti2001 > JR1 04/09/2015 at 17:55

0

Mondial 8. It was a bad bad car.

Bmarti2001 > Manuél Ferrari 04/09/2015 at 17:56

2

You are bang on. The 996/997 are just blah as a DD. Get it over to Lime rock and that's something else. But if you are just ripping around town it's so boring

Manuél Ferrari > Bmarti2001 04/09/2015 at 17:59

0

Yeah is so quiet and sterile.

I really need to invest in an after market exhaust. That could help a lot.

And you're right. It's a totally different thing when drifen like it should be driven.

Once it's a bit older I will track it.

Right now it has 55000 miles and still looks flawless. I feel bad risking it on track.

Bmarti2001 > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. 04/09/2015 at 18:00

0

Nah, that's a myth. Lancia's didn't rust anymore than any other car from the 70's. Lancia, BMW 2002, Porsche 911. All prone to rust if they weren't taken care of but none more so than the other

Bmarti2001 > punkgoose17 04/09/2015 at 18:02

1

Find More, this is fun. Also dig up some Lancia Beta coupes, no Zagatos

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > Bmarti2001 04/09/2015 at 18:11

0

Seemed pretty bad to me.

JR1 > Bmarti2001 04/09/2015 at 18:12

0

But why?

punkgoose17 > Bmarti2001 04/09/2015 at 18:26

0

I wIll fInd some more tomorrow.

dmcspeedy > 472CID 04/09/2015 at 19:10

0

Ain't this a 987?

Kroozah > 472CID 04/09/2015 at 21:23

0

Where the hell are you finding a last-gen Esprit for $35k??? I've only ever seen them for at least $50k. Although those were all V8 turbos. Is this the price for a non-turbo?

Bmarti2001 > JR1 04/09/2015 at 21:32

2

Slow, ugly, heavy, and transistor based electronics which made the owner have to chase more gremlins than Zach Galligan.

Bmarti2001 > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. 04/09/2015 at 21:39

0

Yep, it did seem bad. It wasn't exactly the car's fault though. The British media absolutely hammered Lancia. The cars sat in port while the Uk argued with Italy over import tax. They sat seaside for months and did suffer from rust by the time they got to the showroom. Again, any car at that time would have had the same problem. All 70's cars are rust prone. They just need care, the good ones are the ones to find and keep now.

Doug Radcliffe > Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! 04/10/2015 at 08:22

0

C'mon now, round these parts everybody likes you.

Court AutoTempest > punkgoose17 04/12/2015 at 19:04

0

Hey there,

I'm Court, lead designer of SearchTempest and AutoTempest. Was wondering, what is it that you like about SearchTempest more than AutoTempest? Your feedback could help us make AutoTempest better :)

Thanks!

punkgoose17 > Court AutoTempest 04/13/2015 at 11:34

0

SearchTempest searches Craigslist for cars which is the real value. It is easy to search ebay, autotrader.com, and cars.com for cars. (You are missing the results for classic cars from cars.com [Advanced Search- 2000 and Older Vehicles]) If you added the results for Craigslist directly to AutoTempest that would be helpful.

If I want to find a classic Saab 96 on Craigslist I currently have to go to SearchTempest and Search "1960 Saab" and then repeat the search for every year through "1973 Saab".

g101010101 > Bmarti2001 08/29/2015 at 20:02

1

An opinion from someone who clearly has never driven one as a DD so your point is moot. If you had driven one as a DD then you would never say this.

p.s. you must be fun at parties

Bmarti2001 > g101010101 09/01/2015 at 15:41

1

I owned a 06 997 s. Soooooo you are wrong. I have had a 71 and 88 as well but let’s not worry about facts. Someone disagreed with you so clearly you are right.

FlatSixNeunelfer > Bmarti2001 09/01/2015 at 18:58

0

I just read many of your previous posts crapping all over 911’s, yet you’ve owned 3? I do not believe you.

Maybe stop wasting parts of your life reading or posting about how much you hate 911’s. Use that time to do something productive instead.

good day sir

Bmarti2001 > FlatSixNeunelfer 09/03/2015 at 18:40

0

New 911 suck, old ones fun. Very simple.

997 burned me as it did many and I learned what junk they have become. Nothing too complicated. 71 Very difficult to maintain. 88 was the best of the bunch for me, shoulda kept it.

Kinda weird you are getting so upset about it. You can boys need to learn to breathe a bit

And why don’t you let me worry about how productive I am.

FlatSixNeunelfer > Bmarti2001 01/08/2016 at 14:35

0

You keep posting things and yet you are STILL greyed out. Why? You realize that no one can read your angry posts right? What is wrong with you? I seriously want to know what makes someone like you tick.

Bmarti2001 > FlatSixNeunelfer 01/08/2016 at 16:12

0

You yelling at me from a post that is 5 months old and calling me the angry one? Ok.

FlatSixNeunelfer > Bmarti2001 01/08/2016 at 16:41

0

Reading your posts....I’m not angry, I just feel sorry for people like you. Good luck!